The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice Of The DSO Industry – Episode 46

Priyanki Amroliwala, Senior Manager, Talent Acquisition of 42 North Dental, discusses all aspects of dental recruitment – a hot topic! Priyanki shares tips for interviewees and also talks about recruitment challenges in the DSO industry. You’ll learn what to do and what not to do – what to ask and what not to ask. If you are involved in HR/recruitment or you are a career seeker, this podcast is for you!

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Full Transcript:

Bill Neumann:

Like to welcome everyone to the Group Dentistry Now Show. I’m Bill Neumann, and on today’s show, we’re going to talk about all things dental recruiting, so a really hot topic right now. It’s always a hot topic, but I think especially with COVID and some of the challenges that have come up during this time. So like to welcome our guest, Priyanki Amroliwala, and she is with 42 North. Priyanki, thanks for being here.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Thank you, Bill, for having me. I appreciate that. Yes.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah. So I’ll give you a little background on Priyanki. She is the senior manager of talent acquisitions for 42 North, and she does recruiting for 85 plus practices. Can’t keep up with all the practices you all add, but it’s over 85 practices across New England. She focuses in on doctors and specialists. She has been with 42 North for five and a half years, and has 10 plus years experience, mostly in health care, including private duty home care and senior care sectors, and she is a graduate from the University of Baltimore. So hopefully, I got everything in there, but again, thanks for being here, Priyanki.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yes, you actually got everything perfectly, so I appreciate that. Yes.

Bill Neumann:

Okay, excellent. So talk to us a little bit about 42 North. Like I mentioned, you’ve had a lot of growth recently. And actually, I guess, not super recently, but relatively recently, you had the name change from Gentle Dental. About, what, two and a half years ago, it moved from Gentle Dental to 42 North.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, correct. So you’re right. About two years ago or something like that, I’m losing track of time here, we did change our name from Gentle Dental to 42 North Dental, just to better reflect the business. So Gentle Dental is obviously still a huge part of who we are. It’s one of our brands. So what we’re doing is, as we’re growing, we are also affiliating with a lot of existing dental practices.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And what we realized, Bill, is that a lot of patients don’t really appreciate or understand such conglomerates or such types of mergers and acquisitions where you change a name. It’s not really super friendly in the patient world, so what we do is, we keep the original name of the practice. So what that ends up doing is, that doesn’t reflect properly on the Gentle Dental name, just because there’s so many different brands that we have. So we changed our name to 42 North Dental, and then Gentle Dental is one of our brands, and then we’ve got so many other different practices under their original practice names as well. So Gentle Dental technically is one of our brands.

Bill Neumann:

Okay, so tell me what states you’re located in right now, 42 North practices.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, so right now, we’re a New England-based organization. As you had mentioned, we have close to 85 practices all across New England. Our headquarters are actually in Waltham, Massachusetts, about 20 minutes outside of Boston, but we’re actually in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Connecticut and New York, so we’re currently in five different states.

Bill Neumann:

Okay, yeah. You’re down in New York now, okay. Great. There’s always challenges regarding recruiting, right? So staffing and recruiting is a challenge, but then throw COVID into it and it presents a whole other dynamic. So let’s talk a little bit about how you, personally, and 42 North has dealt with the staffing situation and recruiting.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah. Bill, I mean, you’re right. Staffing in general is a challenge in any industry, definitely very much so in healthcare and definitely in dentistry as well. It’s always been a challenge. And as you had mentioned, during COVID, it became even a bigger struggle, more so than ever. I would say some of the reasons why is really just because of the fact that, I guess, a lot of people during the COVID quarantine time or whatnot… It was very new at that time, and people were really afraid. So a lot of people were actually afraid to even generally come back into work or come into work, just because they didn’t understand the whole thing and they didn’t know if they were going to catch COVID, or hurt their family members or whatnot. So we’ve seen a lot of staff that generally just didn’t want to come back due to the fear of getting COVID.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And then another issue was also, and I’m sure, Bill, all the viewers must agree to this, everyone has children that are now in remote learning. So any person that had a young child, or even just a child in general that had to switch to remote learning, that in itself became a big struggle because the mom or dad, or mom and dad together would have to stay at home and support the child, and get them through their day of their remote learning and whatnot. So we saw that a lot of staff members just couldn’t come back to work because they’re the ones who had to end up staying at home to support their children at home through the remote learning and all that stuff.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

A lot of staff members also didn’t come back, just because they either live with elderly parents or grandparents, or were surrounded by those elderly people that are “more at a high risk of getting COVID” or whatever the case is, so we lost a lot of staff because of that too. I mean, all of it, in general, was a huge struggle for us.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, I can only imagine. Well, I guess one of the issues we heard was, it wasn’t so much getting patients back, that was some of it, it was getting the staff to come back. You had patients, but you might have had staffing issues, so how did you all combat that?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So what we did was, we had to strategically think about it. You’re right, though. Our patients actually, for the most part, did want to come back in, so as long as we were following guidelines by the CDC and whatever the states had given us, we were following through that. And the patients were okay with it, for the most part, to come back, which was a good thing. In terms of staffing, what we did was, we started being more creative in our thinking. Number one is, we never, ever wanted to let go of our current employees. It’s just not a thing that we want to do, just because they’ve all worked for us for so long and we’ve developed those great relationships. And let’s face it, even our patients love our staff, right?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So we started thinking creatively, so we didn’t want to think about, okay, let’s take… We didn’t want to basically get rid of staff and then hire a new team. That didn’t make sense. But we started thinking strategically, like, okay, if your child is in remote learning, week one, but then is in school, week two and you’re able to actually commit to specific hours, week two while your child is in school, let’s do that. Let’s do, week two, you come back in, and then week one, you’re not in the practice.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And then we would go through that based on who the team members were, so if one dental assistant could come in week one, and then the other one could come, week two, that’s how we would staff it. Obviously, it’s a lot of work in the scheduling side for our practices, but we definitely did do that just so we could make sure that our staff still had their jobs or their careers that they’d spent so much time trying to work on. And that way, our patients were still getting the support and everything that we needed for the practices.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So that’s what we did, and then we started also doing different hours, different shifts, so we would do maybe a morning shift and then an evening shift. So we would do various shifts so that if the dental assistant or whomever it was for the practice, they could still come in every day and then do a specific amount of hours. So their hours might be reduced from what they were originally doing, pre-COVID, but that way, they could still come in, still provide the support that they need, and still provide the support that they needed at home as well, through their children’s remote learning or whatever other duties they needed to take care of.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, that sounds great. So flexible schedules were a big thing, and are you still doing that to this day?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, flexible schedules. I talk to a lot of dentists… I mean, dentists that are looking for jobs or whatever the case is, same thing. A lot of dentists that are currently looking for jobs, a lot of them say, “You know what? My wife is at home on specific days, so those are the days that I can go to work. And then the days that she’s back at work, I need to stay at home, or vice versa,” so on and so forth. So even the candidate pool has gotten to that point where it’s all about the exact schedule and then being able to squeeze that into their schedule. So it could just be Monday, Wednesday, Friday, could be Tuesday, Thursday. It could be specific days, based on whatever’s going on at home and whatever their spouse’s schedule looks like.

Bill Neumann:

So there’s almost that expectation now from people you talk to that are looking for careers, that there’s going to be flexibility with the schedules.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yes, yeah. Anyone and everyone that’s looking right now, they’re looking for a lot of flexibility, and the great thing, Bill, is that, because… So our practices are open six days a week and our practices aren’t typically just open 9:00 to 5:00. Our practices are open anywhere from 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning, sometimes even at 7:00 in the morning, all the way up until 8:00 PM, so we’re actually able to provide the shifts that these people are looking for.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So if someone wants to do an evening shift from 12:00 to 8:00 PM, we have that option available. Get someone to come in a little early in the morning and then end a little early, we also have that option. And then, I guess, the funny thing is now, everyone wants to work Saturdays because Saturday is a day that their kids aren’t in the remote learning, their kids don’t really need that much help or support, and they can quickly come in and do a full day Saturday as well.

Bill Neumann:

Interesting, okay. So Saturday’s become preferred.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, exactly. Saturday has become a preferred day. The shifts that people originally weren’t excited to work, like an evening shift, they’re wanting to work that now because in the mornings, they can get their kids settled into their remote learning or whatever they need to do, and then come into work in the afternoon.

Bill Neumann:

Great, so let’s talk about some other things 42 North’s done. Talk about technology a little bit, and how you’ve started to use that, and whether it’s pre-COVID or whether… You hear a lot of talk about using things like teledentistry or from the standpoint of… You don’t want the patients hanging out in the waiting room any longer than they have to, if at all, so there’s a lot of texting that’s going on now, patient reminders. Talk a little bit about technology and how that’s helped.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah. I mean, Bill, I would say, pre-COVID too, we were obviously using technology, so texting the patients before their appointment, for confirmations, we would email. So we actually do a phone call confirmation, an email confirmation, and then a text confirmation. So for us, it’s a foolproof system. We’ve tackled you down in all different ways to make sure that either you’re going to come in or you’re not going to come in. So we used to do that pre-COVID and it’s a great system. That has continued to work well for us.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Teledentistry, yes, we’ve started to use that, of course, as well, especially during the lockdown or the quarantine. We basically had to close down a lot of practices, or shut down a lot of practices for a temporary amount of time because of the lockdown. But we still did have specific hub offices that we would keep open for emergency care, but the way that we would triage it was through the teledentistry. So telehealth is what we were using, yes.

Bill Neumann:

Okay. What about recruiting? I mean, obviously, probably Zoom meetings or things like this, from a recruitment standpoint, not a lot of in-person interviews anymore. So talk about maybe the challenges with recruitment when it comes to technology and how you’ve been able to leverage it.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, the world of recruitment has certainly changed in the past year, for sure. Again, we’ve always utilized technology. I was pleasantly surprised. So yeah, same thing. Because we’re growing, we’re doing a lot of hiring, and what we do is, we actually hire six months in advance for a lot of graduates coming out of dental school, a lot of people coming out of residency. So remember, we’re multi-specialty practices, so not only are we hiring general dentists as providers, we’re also hiring specialists, so we’re hiring oral surgeons, endodontists, orthodontists, periodontists, pediatric dentists, in our practices.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So what we used to do, Bill, was, we’re closely connected or tied into a lot of dental schools and a lot of residency programs, we used to fly out residents, had them come to our Waltham, Massachusetts headquarters, we would get them, basically, a hotel room the night before, they would interview with us for a few hours, we would get them to see the practices. It was a full-blown experience that we had put together, which we were excited about and was working well.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And then, of course, once COVID hit, that completely changed things, because the fact of the matter is, most people really are not able to travel. There’s a whole process behind it, based on what’s going on, based on if your state will allow you to travel without quarantining and get a COVID test and all that stuff, so we basically realigned our strategy. So now, all that stuff that we used to do in person has literally changed into Zoom meetings, so we do a lot of phone interviews, we do a lot more Zoom meetings, and then now, we’re doing virtual tours of our practices.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

It’s not the same exact feeling and the same exact energy that you’re going to get when you’re in person, but I am pleasantly surprised. It’s actually been working really well. I would say that the biggest or the best thing is, is that the residents don’t need to take time off with their schooling to come and fly and meet with us and stuff like that, so that’s helpful. So no one really has to take any time off. We’re quickly just doing this now based on their availability in the afternoons, during their lunch break, or in between their patients and stuff like that, so I think they’ve appreciated that a lot more. And then on our end, it’s a lot more coordination or juggling, but you know what? It also saves a lot more time on our end and it saves a lot more money on our end as well, so it’s been financially helpful as well, yeah.

Bill Neumann:

So this might be something that, post-COVID, you may want to stick with, at least-

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. The Zoom-

Bill Neumann:

That’s great.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah. The Zoom meetings have been working really well. The Zoom interviews have been working very, very well for us, and I really don’t see that going away at all, yeah, yeah, because-

Bill Neumann:

See-

Priyanki Amroliwala:

… it was always a struggle to get the residents to come out. And now, it’s been a lot easier, and I appreciate that. We’ve appreciated that a lot, yes.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, and now they have this option. So speaking of the younger docs, the dental schools and grads, certainly has probably been a change, probably spent a lot of time at the different dental schools around the Boston area, recruitment events, and now, of course, that’s all gone away. So talk a little bit about how 42 North gets their brand out, how you communicate with the schools, and then you’re communicating with the residents and the dental students.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, so it’s funny. You’re right, number one good thing is, we’re based out of Boston, so we’ve got a lot of great dental schools just around the corner from us. And yeah, that was another big thing, because normally we would go to the graduation brunches that they would host and we would do a lot of lunch and learns, and we would go to their career fairs, and their vendor fairs, and Tufts, every year, has a Bates Day that we would go to and be a part of, all in person. We’d set up our booth and all these different things that we were doing.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

But one good thing is, now, they’ve actually changed it and allowed it to be virtually, so I’m now doing a virtual lunch and learn, which I was a little hesitant about. I wasn’t sure how that was going to turn out, but it’s been really good. So the students, again, appreciate it because they could be in their apartments or they could be at home, tuning into the lunch and learn. And the good thing is, they can quickly text or chat with me the questions that they have. So it’s been, like I said, a different experience, but I got some feedback after some of the lunch and learns that I’ve hosted, and I feel like I got more positive feedback doing it virtually than I have in person, so that was helpful.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So I know with Tufts, they’re doing their first annual Bates Day virtually. That’ll be their first annual virtual Bates Day. That’s coming up in a few weeks, so I’ll be curious as to see how that goes. But we’re trying. I mean, the dental schools are trying their best to continue with their traditions and stuff that they’ve been doing. They’re trying to still generate revenue and income and stuff like that through the vendors that they’ve always had, so they’re continuing to do that. And the good thing, Bill, is, when you’re at a organization like 42 North Dental, we’re continuing to grow, even during these tough times, even during COVID, and we’re still hiring, and we’re still affiliating with practices, and opening up new practices or whatnot. So we’re also doing our best to support these dental schools and these other companies that are out there, for sure.

Bill Neumann:

So Priyanki, when you’re virtually talking to these dental students or residents, what are they looking for? Have things changed since COVID, or what are you hearing from the dental students? What are they asking? Are there any things that have kind of bubbled to the surface, you might go, “Wow, this is a little bit different than pre-COVID”?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, it’s funny. Definitely, a lot of their questions have changed. So I mean, obviously, some, they’re going to always be the same. How do you compensate? What do your practices look like? Stuff like that. But one of their biggest concerns, or one of their number one questions now is, is your practice safe and clean? Is it going to be okay for your patients, and for myself, and for anyone else that’s in the practice? What are you doing to practice social distancing? What are you doing for your patients? Are you checking their temperature as soon as they come in? Do you provide them hand sanitizer? Are you following all the CDC guidelines? Are you following all the guidelines provided by your state on a minute-by-minute basis? So these are some of the questions I’m getting asked.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And Bill, it’s funny. I mean, it’s not even the dental students. They are asking me that, but what I’ve seen is, the talent market has shifted. So a lot of people, a lot of the experienced dentists that were already working at practices or whatnot, they started looking for jobs just because they felt like, number one, their practice wasn’t abiding by everything that the CDC was putting out or anything that their state dental board was putting out, so they actually started looking for jobs just because they felt like their practice wasn’t cohering to all those things.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And then number two, a lot of them started looking just because a lot of those patients that they usually were seeing were actually not coming back, so a lot of dentists felt like their practices were a lot slower than they used to be, they weren’t getting as many new patients as they used to, they felt like their existing patient base wasn’t coming back, just because of the fact that it’s COVID, they were scared to come back, or financially, they just couldn’t do it for right now, so on and so forth. So I’ve seen a mix of what’s going on out in the market right now.

Bill Neumann:

Interesting. So other positions besides dentists, let’s talk about hygiene, assistance. What are you seeing there? I mean, are there any differences, as far as maybe the questions that they may be asking, availability? I mean, we’ve heard, in certain parts of the country, hygiene has been a big problem, getting hygienists back. Are you seeing some of that as well?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Hygiene has been a huge, huge struggle. I would say we’ve gotten a lot better today than we probably were maybe about five, six months ago, so we’ve gotten a lot better. The candidate pool has opened up a little bit. But yes, I would say when it first happened, hygienists were not coming back to work. Hygienists were not coming back to work, and I think it’s just because of the demographic. Most of them are females, or most of them basically did have young kids at home. And a lot of them, number one, were either afraid to come back to work, just because of the exposure to COVID, they weren’t really sure what we were going to do or what was going to happen in all these practices, and then number two, I would say probably half of them just couldn’t come back because of the fact that they had so many restrictions in the house.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So it was flat out throughout the dental industry. None of the hygienists were coming back. The hygiene struggle was real. But like I said, Bill, what we did was, we tried to work with the talent pool that we already had, tried to accommodate them as much as possible, tried to work with them and their schedules, not be so “rigid” because technically, we’re all here for the patients, so we felt like as long as they were there and around to support the patients as much as possible, we would try to work through everything else as much as possible. We had a lot more flexibility on our ends, tried to work with them on their schedule. Again, we’re all in this together, so trying to be as flexible as possible with their schedules and stuff like that.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And I would say, as we all got settled into the year with COVID and everything that was happening, a lot of them just either figured out something to do for their home, so either hire a babysitter at home, or get some parents or someone else to help so they could come back to work while we work with them on their scheduling. And then we noticed that, like I said, as people got accommodated, they became less afraid, so the hygienists that were originally afraid to come back to work were now coming back to work and just got over it, if that makes sense.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, yeah, it sure does. Let’s shift here a little bit. We have career seekers, a lot of younger docs that follow the podcast, go to the website. What questions should they be asking you? You’re dealing with them day in and day out. What should they be asking you? How do they really find out whether 42 North or another DSO is the right place for them?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, Bill, I think that’s a great question. And I would say that some of the questions that they really should ask, as of recent times, and it’s a legit question, is what we just talked about. And it is a concern. I’ve seen that a lot of places, and it’s not their fault. It’s hard to abide by everything and go through all these changes, especially because everything is happening so fast. It’s hard to keep track of.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

But as they go and look for jobs, as they’re interviewing at places, don’t be shy, don’t be afraid to ask if the practice is abiding by all the guidelines, and what they’re doing, and how they’re keeping up with all the trends and all the changes that are constantly happening, so ask that. I think that should be the number one question to ask these days, just because, again, we’re all here for the patients, so we have to make sure that the patients are safe and okay.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And obviously, so are we, so we have to make sure we’re also okay and we’re in a healthy, safe work environment. So don’t be shy or afraid to ask those questions. I think it’s legit and it should be asked. And most of the other candidates ask me the regular stuff, how we compensate, if their schedule is going to be busy, and what the practice looks like, and what the setup is like and stuff like that. So those are the questions that I’ve always been asked, and those are continuously just going to be asked anyways, which is fine.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. What about misconceptions? So we talk a lot about DSOs, and I’m sure you probably have some people interviewing and they may think certain things. What misconceptions do you find when you’re talking to people that are interviewing, dealing with staffing, and then how do you combat those misconceptions?

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah. Bill, it’s funny. There are some people that, for some reason, it’s instilled in their minds or their brains that a DSO is just not the place that they want to be. They just want to be at a private practice. And when I’ve talked to these people or challenged them on the reason why, they didn’t really have many legit reasons. They’re like, “Well, it’s just not for me. I don’t want to do a DSO. I just want to work at a private practice.” So there’s no “rhyme or reason” other than it’s instilled in their minds that that’s what they want to do, and though there’s nothing wrong with that…

Priyanki Amroliwala:

But I would say the biggest thing is, a lot of people feel like, when they’re going to join a DSO or whatnot, they feel like they’re going to just be a set of hands to do dentistry, or they’re going to be kind of part of a mill or a factory where we’re not really there to take care of the patients, and we’re not really there to serve the patients, and we’re really there to “generate revenue and make money” and we don’t really care about the patients and we’re not doing right by the patients. And they also feel like there’s a lot of production goals that they need to follow, and stuff like that, and those are just not accurate.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

So it’s not just for 42 North Dental. I am connected in the dental industry. I talk to a lot of people at all the other DSOs, including Aspen and Pacific Dental and a lot of the other local DSOs as well. And we all agree, there’s no “production goals” that you need to follow, for the most part. Of course, we’re all here together and we’re all working towards something together, so we all do want to be profitable, but we also want to do it in a very nice, moral way. And again, we still have the same purpose. We’re all here to serve the patients, and do well and do right by the patients, do good for the patients. So we share the same mantra that most dentists, or anyone in the Dental Support Organization, or anyone, should be following, which is, do well for the patient, do right for the patient, and then the rest will just follow.

Bill Neumann:

Okay. Well, this is the final question for you, Priyanki, so talk to me a little bit about what you see the future of recruiting in the DSO space. What does that look like? I mean, we can talk about it in a post-COVID world, we could talk about it… But you know what? Whether it’s technology, whether it’s going to be more difficult, whether it’s going to be easier, just give me your thoughts on that.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Yeah, I don’t see it getting easier. I wish I could tell you that it’s going to get easier, but I’ve been with this company now for almost six years and each day is a struggle, for sure. In terms of recruiting, it’s not an easy job. It’s something that you have to continuously just work towards. So same thing, utilize technology as much as possible. Technology, obviously, is great. So like I said, I feel like some of the greatest things that we did during COVID was, switched to the Zoom world. It worked a lot better for our interview process. We could quickly get more people through the door, quickly get them interviewed and stuff like that, so that worked really well. So I would say, post-COVID, we’re going to continue to utilize the Zoom and the technology as much as possible so people are traveling less, fitting more things through their schedule and saving time in the end, just because they’re not traveling and coming in for all these interviews and stuff like that. So that will work well.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

And yeah, I don’t see this getting any easier, but what I will tell you, Bill, is that the recruitment world has definitely a necessity in a DSO, in any organization, especially in healthcare, or the Dental Support Organizations, or any dental practice, so the need for recruitment is definitely going to be there. We’re always going to continuously have turnover. It’s part of the industry. It is what it is, so the turnover will always be there. There will always, always be a huge need for recruitment. It’s not going to be easy. So I guess my piece of advice to anyone that’s listening, that’s out there, is, when it comes to recruitment, make sure that you hire talented recruiters that have a great background, that have specific personality fits for the job. That’s what I’ve seen. Hire recruiters that are passionate about what they do, because anyone that’s passionate about what they do, the rest will just follow.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, that makes sense. That’s a great way to end things. So I appreciate you taking time today. I’m sure you’re going to be doing some interviewing later on, probably.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

I am, yes.

Bill Neumann:

That sounds good. Well, thanks, Priyanki. So again, we like to thank Priyanki Amroliwala from 42 North, and she was kind enough to take some time today and talk a little bit about the challenges of recruitment, and especially in a COVID world, although like we’ve mentioned before, there’s always challenges. And we’ll check in with you maybe later on, and see how things are going maybe next year, and we can talk a little bit about how things are, post-COVID, so that might be the way to go. But again, thanks for joining us.

Priyanki Amroliwala:

Bill, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate that.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah. And thanks, everybody, for listening and watching today. I’m Bill Neumann with the Group Dentistry Now Show. Until next time.