The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice Of The DSO Industry – Episode 43

Bob Fontana, Founder & CEO of Aspen Dental Management, Inc. (ADMI), shares BIG NEWS with our audience! He reveals never before disclosed info about their recent expansion into medical aesthetic clinic management and how the DSO is evolving into an HSO (health support organization.) We also discuss their recent ClearChoice Management acquisition and the growth of their urgent care clinics, Wellnow Urgent Care. If you want cutting-edge knowledge from an industry giant – this podcast is for you!

Our podcast series brings you dental support and emerging dental group practice analysis, conversation, trends, news and events. Listen to leaders in the DSO and emerging dental group space talk about their challenges, successes, and the future of group dentistry.

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Full Transcript:

I’d like to welcome everyone to the Group Dentistry Now Show. I’m Bill Neumann and happy new year to everyone. And I’m going to start the new year off right. We have a special guest with us today, Bob Fontana, who is the founder and the CEO of Aspen Dental Management. So, hey, Bob. First off, happy new year.

Bob Fontana: Bill, happy new year to you too. How are you?

Bill Neumann:

I’m doing well. Thanks for being here and we’ve got a lot to talk about today. You all have been very busy in 2020, and it looks like 2021 is going to be an interesting year for the industry and for Aspen Dental Management in particular. Bob Fontana, he founded Aspen Dental Management back in 1998. And if this is correct, it seems like you’ve been in the dental industry since 95, right? So you started off with another DSO that actually … East Coast Dental Management that merged with Upstate Dental. And then that became Aspen Dental Management in 98. So you’ve been around for a while in the industry.

Bob Fontana: I have. I’ve got the battle wounds to prove it too.

Bill Neumann: And they were not called DSOs back then.

Bob Fontana: I think DPMs.

Bill Neumann: Okay. DPM.

Bob Fontana:

Dental Practice Management Companies I think is what we used to go by.

Bill Neumann:

And we were talking just before we started to record this may be a new acronym coming out soon at least for what you’re all involved in with, Aspen Dental Management’s involved in, but we’ll get to that a little bit later. So ADMI is now one of the largest and fastest growing health and wellness business support organizations in the US with more than 1000 practices supported. And this is news to me. I just got this about probably 30 minutes ago. So I knew part of this, but not the whole picture. So 1000 practices supported across three categories. Dental care we know of. Urgent Care I did know of although maybe not everybody knew that. And then this is new, medical aesthetics. So we’ll talk a little bit about that. So really exciting things that you’re doing at Aspen supporting these different categories in healthcare.

Bill Neumann:

So little bit more here. Bob pioneered an operating model that drove Aspen Dental successful continuous expansion entirely through de novo growth to more than 870 offices in 42 States today. And so this hurt my head when I read this. So opening a new location every four days. So that’s a lot. You’re pretty busy. So through a series of strategic acquisitions, WellNow Urgent Care, which we mentioned a little bit earlier. Seven locations when acquired in 2016 and now 85 locations in four states, putting it among the top 10 Urgent Care providers in the U.S. and plans to do the same with the medical aesthetics category after the recent acquisition of the largest single med spa clinic in the U.S. And a lot of questions for you. 25 years in leadership experience, like I mentioned, and was a founding member of the ADSO which used to be the Dental Group Practice … Was it the Dental Group Practice Association, right? That’s what it was?

Bob Fontana:

I don’t remember. Something like that. There really are lots of acronyms in this industry.

Bill Neumann:

So now it’s the ADSO. And then also on the board of the National Veterinary Association, MedExpress Urgent Care. So, yeah. A lot going on there. Big bio and yeah, I was just reading something probably from about four or five days ago. You finish your year up strong, eight practice openings in the last two weeks. And we talked about the total being right around 870. In 2020, 59 openings. And those last couple were in Idaho, Missouri, West Virginia, Maryland, Louisiana, North Carolina, and another one in North Carolina and Oregon. So 42 states. You all are very, very busy.

Bob Fontana:

We’re really busy now. There’s no doubt about it, but it’s a good busy. We’re really fortunate to be in this category. We love where we’re at as a company and we feel really good about our plans going forward for sure.

Bill Neumann:

Maybe give a little bit of background. I mentioned it in your bio when I introduced you. East Coast Dental Management, right? So that was 1995. So let’s talk a little bit about maybe the history of Aspen Dental Management. And then we can talk a little bit about all the recent acquisitions and some of the other things?

Bob Fontana:

I was fortunate enough to get going with East Coast Dental. The business that I started with had been sold in Upstate New York, and I had a chance to sort of merge my business with that business and take over the reins. And we changed over to Aspen Dental in 1998. And as you said earlier we’ve been really on this de novo strategy in part because we really understand who we are. We really understand who the patient is and that’s really led us to an operating model that works. You can’t do de novos and you certainly can’t open a new store every four days, new office every four days if you don’t understand where to put them and understand how to go to market. And so understanding the consumer was really, I think, an important insight early on, and that’s really sort of led the way to our growth over the last 20 something years.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah. So with this growth, obviously you need to build out the support. Right now you’re in Upstate New York as we speak right now. So that’s where the headquarters is, but then you also have a support center in Chicago. Two headquarters?

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we actually have four support centers. So we have a couple here at Syracuse. We have about 600 people in the Syracuse support centers, but we … Because talent is so important to us … The business is getting pretty sophisticated. It’s large. I think on a combined basis there’s 14,000 people in the organization now between all the brands. And talent is really critical. So when you think about what we’re trying to do … I mean, we have a great model. Syracuse isn’t the easiest place to get talent.

Bob Fontana:

So we made a decision a few years back and said, “Listen, we could be in the center of the country. There’s lots of talents. Chicago’s the third largest city in the country.” And so we made a decision to actually make Chicago our headquarters. And so we dipped our toe in Chicago, built out a facility, which you’ve I think visited a year or so ago. And we did that I think in large part in 18 and it’s gone really well and the business has done really well. And so now actually we’re under construction for a new practice support center in Chicago. And we also have a practice support center in the Phoenix market as well.

Bill Neumann:

So it makes sense. East Coast, central part of the country, and then the West Coast. So, yeah. I was out there about a year ago and you’ve already … Which was a great space or is a great space. You’ve already outgrown that. And I guess you’re staying relatively close to where that original support center was.

Bob Fontana:

Just a couple of blocks down. Yeah. It’s a great spot; Chicago. I think it was one of the fastest growing micro markets in the country; the floating market. It’s great. Listen, at the end of the day it’s a support center, but it’s also a state-of-the-art training facility. And I think, as you know, we bring all the doctors into Chicago, all the hygienists, all the managers, field teams and all those things. So again, the heart of what we do is really talent. Our culture, our purpose, all those things that are really important to us and our brand and bringing people in to level set on those things and having the right onboarding and learning development programs are really critical for us. And so making these investments for us, particularly in a de novo strategy, is really critical. And so we continue to make investments in our teams and infrastructure in a way that continues to allow us to grow the way we do.

Bill Neumann:

Excellent. I’d say about a month or two ago we had John Murphy on the podcast as well. And he talked a little bit about dealing with COVID and from a recruitment and retention standpoint kind of what was going on there and really having to think a little bit differently as just about company I think. Not just in the dental space, but overall was doing … You opened up your online training to all dentists, right? And hygienists and anyone, which was a bold move. And I think probably really helped a lot of people out not just Aspen employees, but overall. Let’s talk a little bit about that. So we saw each other in late February when I was out in Chicago and then first week in March, all of a sudden, everything shuts down. So you did some pivoting there, but you were still busy. So first thing I’d like to talk a little bit about is the ClearChoice Management Services acquisition.

Bill Neumann:

First off, why ClearChoice and was this something that you were working on pre COVID? And then talk a little bit about doing a big acquisition like that during a time when a lot of people were kind of hunkered down just trying to survive.

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. Well, going back to COVID I’d say this, I mean, as we said earlier, no one knew what to do and how to really behave. And so for us, it was really sort of making sure we’re sort of protecting the business, helping the practice owners in our business really be … Sort of hunker down and be really, really thoughtful about the things that we’re doing, particularly back in March and April when it was really sort of the … What I sometimes refer to as the darkest period of COVID. And we still came through that pretty well. Our business is healthy. We have a lot of conviction on what we do. We don’t think dentistry is going to go away. We love this category. We have really the only true national brand. And so we had a lot of conviction to continue to invest in the business even in times where I think it was really challenging, particularly in April, but we knew coming out of it, we felt we could be stronger and we felt we could be opportunistic.

Bob Fontana:

And so, as you know, we’re a de novo company, but we started to really think about asymmetrical growth in a way that I think is important to us. And so we were interested in ClearChoice. We knew Kevin and the team there for a long time. They’re great operators. And we started talking to them earlier sort of pre COVID, but really picked up those discussions in the late summer, early fall of this year. And we’re pleased. I mean, they are a great team. It’s a great brand. They’re a national brand as well. So it sort of fits in with who we are. There’s a lot of similarities in the patient base. So we’re super excited and listen, we’ve looked at a lot of DSOs over the year and there’s some great groups out there, but really none that really matched I think who we are and what’s important to our DNA. But ClearChoice I think is a special one for us that we think is a great fit for us.

Bill Neumann:

So how many locations does ClearChoice have right now?

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. So ClearChoice has about 65 location. They operate in about 27 states. Headquartered out of Denver. Actually heading there next week to see Kevin and the team, but we’re thrilled. I mean, listen, they’re the leader in fixed, full arch restorations. They provide a great service, a high end service, and they’re the best at it. And they’re the largest provider of implants in that category. So what’s interesting, I think, for maybe you and the viewers, it’s, Aspen’s the largest provider of removable prosthetics. So we’re seeing a lot of a very similar patient base since they have very … They have a lot of periodontal disease, a lot of challenges, and as the Aspen practices and doctors continue to do more implants, what better way to sort of get into that and in a more significant way? By acquiring the leader in the market. And that’s what led us to really buckling down and getting ClearChoice over the goal line. And again, we’re thrilled. We really are.

Bill Neumann:

And are they in any states that Aspen currently isn’t in?

Bob Fontana:

I think there’s three states if I recall. I think there’s three states of that. So I think on a combined basis now with ClearChoice I think we’re in 45 states on a combined basis. 42 and then the three States that we don’t cross over. So I think a total of 45 States now.

Bill Neumann:

Okay. And was there model de novo as well, or did they do any acquisitions?

Bob Fontana:

Oh, they’re de novo as well. They got a great model. Again, what’s interesting going back to our DNA, I think they know their patient really, really well. And again, it’s a very similar patient base. What’s interesting is we put through roughly, call it … In our funnel bill we get roughly 75,000 inquiries for new patients every single week and they get around 10,000. So when you combine the power of that funnel across the country, there’s significant opportunity to sort of work synergistically through those funnels because we have a lot bigger coverage at almost 900 locations across the country. There are 65. And so there’s a lot of patients that they can’t service, even though they’re a national marketer. And I think there’s real opportunity for them. And by the way, just all the sort of collaboration between our doctors, thinking about the special opportunity that we think we can have in implants.

Bill Neumann:

Really super interesting. So ClearChoice what are the thoughts there as far as … So the deal’s officially done. So you’ve got Aspen Dental Management, and then you’ve got ClearChoice Management Services. So Aspen Dental Management is supporting Aspen Dental practices, and then ClearChoice Management Services is supporting ClearChoice Implant Centers.

Bob Fontana:

That’s right. Yeah. So think about it like this. Think about they’re sort of Topco, right? And that’s ADMI, and we’re sort of a shared services company and we have all these core capabilities that we think are leverageable across different modalities across different brands. We have a team focused on Aspen, the Aspen brand, there’s a team … Kevin and the ClearChoice team overseeing and supporting the ClearChoice brand. We have Dr. Radford who now has built that Urgent Care business from seven locations, as you mentioned, now to 85 locations and he oversees and runs their support teams. And then we have Melissa Rogne who is the president and founder of the medical aesthetics business Rejuv who oversees and leads that team in that side of the business as well. So lots going on for sure. And that’s why I was saying earlier, sort of joking with you earlier, yeah, we’re a DSO, but it’s getting to be a little bit more broader healthcare.

Bill Neumann:

So you mentioned HSO, right? Health Services Organization.

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. I don’t know if that’s the one we’re going with, but it’s definitely bleeding over.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah. That seems pretty clear cut, but that makes a lot of sense. All right. Back to ClearChoice and then I definitely want to spend time on the other healthcare verticals that you’re involved in now, but I mean, with COVID, I mean, did that throw any wrinkles in as far as this acquisition and it’s … I mean, probably made it a little bit more difficult to do onsite visits and in-person or were you able to overcome that?

Bob Fontana:

Oh, yeah. We couldn’t go through the normal due diligence process. The interesting thing here, Bill, is we already had a relationship with the ClearChoice team. We knew that brand really well and we did what we could do virtually. So it was a little different for sure, but at the end of the day, again, we were really close and we think they’re a great team. They’ve proven that. Their business runs really, really well. They’ve got great providers providing a great service and again, leaders in that category. So we’re thrilled. I think 2020 will go down as a really transformative year for us. I mean, it was a great year despite all the challenges. Again, as I said, it’s a transformative year for us. So we’re thrilled to be where we’re at. We’ve got leading brands in the dental category that we’re super excited to continue to support and grow. And we’re excited obviously with WellNow and Rejuv.

Bill Neumann:

So let’s talk about WellNow. So this has been since 2016. I think I had word of it from somebody early on, and it was kind of interesting. So they, I guess, are in Upstate New York, right?

Bob Fontana:

Yeah.

Bill Neumann:

Can you call that the headquarters for WellNow or?

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. Well, it’s changing too. It’s probably bleeding more towards Chicago as well, but yes. Founded here in Upstate New York.

Bill Neumann:

Got it. So that was something. Now, what was the kind of the reasoning or what’s the thought process? You looked at Urgent Care and thought this made sense? And how does that relate to Aspen Dental Management and dentistry or doesn’t?

Bob Fontana:

All right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it does. It’s sort of interesting, right? Maybe not on the surface, but it’s so much more than dentistry, right? So when you think about what we do and the core capabilities that we would have that underpins and supports the business. So I was fortunate enough to be on the board, as you mentioned, with MedExpress and learned a lot about the category and MedExpress was a leader in the category; still is. And we sold that business to UnitedHealthcare back in 2014. So I had a lot of interest in the space. Got pretty familiar with it. And then I had a chance to see the small platform in Upstate New York. And so I called cold called Dr. Radford who founded the business. He’s a great leader. He had a great model. Really, really focused on service.

Bob Fontana:

He started to grow a great platform. Was small, seven locations. And so listen, here’s what we’re good at. You obviously understand the Urgent Care business, but we have all these core capabilities and how do we go to market. How we find the right retail locations, how we build them out. When we start to think about sort of all the front end components, the marketing and hiring the team and developing the team, and then you start to think about the backend between finance and HR and IT, and revenue cycle management, insurance operations, and you have all these core capabilities. And those things are leverageable across we think multiple modalities and Urgent Care just seemed like a natural fit for us.

Bob Fontana:

And in many cases we’re co-locating with Aspen. So now instead of building out a 3,500 square foot location per Aspen, and with 3,500 square foot location for WellNow, now we can go get great sites, pad sites, typical sites that are located maybe for restaurants, and now we’re building out 7,000 square feet and have great visibility and the site matters and the visibility matters particularly under a brand new strategy. So we’re super excited. John’s done a great job. As you mentioned, we started with seven locations. We took sort of the year of 17 to figure some stuff out. And now we just did a great acquisition of Hometown Urgent Care in Ohio. So we bolted them on at the end of the year. They got a great team as well. And we’ll convert that business into the sort of a well-known brand and we’re off and running.

Bill Neumann:

So you’ve got this co-located Urgent Care WellNow, and you’ve got Aspen. Is it one building? Is it separated? What does that look like?

Bob Fontana:

Yes. Well, we’re still working through it. The way they are today they’re definitely separate, but we have the benefit of some of the efficiencies of building it out together and you get just a great site and great visibility. So it allows us to be more competitive in the market. And so from my perspective, it’s sort of another sort of competitive leg up. We’re going to continue to work on strategies where maybe we could either create membership programs or loyalty programs in a way that sort of rewards patients at both brands. There’s a lot of things that we sort of have to work through in that, but the reality is all the backend stuff is highly leverageable and we feel really good about the performance of that business as well. Extremely busy. You can imagine all the COVID tests and all the things that are going on there. The volumes are really, really crazy. So we’re happy to provide those services. There are in a tremendous need right now given the environment.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So again, this one’s a new one for me. So medical aesthetics. So tell us about the largest single med spa clinic in the U.S., why you decided that was a fit as well, and kind of what the plans are there. And again, does it relate to dental? Or do you just really leverage the support and maybe you are an HSO now and-

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. Well, listen, we liked the category. We think the category is growing. We think it’s resilient. We think people are taking more care, are more aware now of being able to sort of preserve their looks; reduce the aging process and however you want to sort of think about it. And Melissa and the team have done a remarkable job. They have a remarkable model. She is the highly passionate, energetic leader that’s done an incredible job. She’s developed a business that we think is sort of best in class. And so when we think about that, we think, “Okay. How do we really then scale? How do we bring that business to scale?” And again, those are the things that we think we are pretty good at. What’s interesting is we also think that there is some of those opportunities when you start to think about facial aesthetics and facial anatomy. Dentists are pretty good at that stuff too. I wouldn’t be surprised if we do some of that stuff in the dental offices, but regardless, we’re excited to partner with her. We’re building our plans out and continuing to find ways to expand it.

Bob Fontana:

And by the way, at the heart of all this too, is keep in mind that one of those I think important foundational things for Aspen is there’s a … When we talk about the consumer and the patient model, there’s a doctor model as well that’s really important. Understanding your providers, understand how to support them. We think we have a best in class model. We really do. And that’s really helped let us scale the way we scale, but if you think about WellNow, they have providers too. How we help support them? How do we really think about their career, their opportunities? Same thing with medical aesthetics. There’s doctors, there’s nurse practitioners, there’s a medical team there as well. Yes. You have to understand the front end of the business and the consumer side, but you also have to understand the professional side of the business really well too. And blending both of those things together I think is … Those are important insights for us to be able to do it, do it right, and be able to scale.

Bill Neumann:

Have you seen anything across the different verticals as far as … With COVID, do you see more dentists? In the Urgent Care side of things, people may be looking for a larger organization, somewhere where they have a little bit more support…. at least in dentistry that the traditional solo practitioner model … I mean, do you feel like there’s people that are maybe looking for that safety almost?

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s the feedback we’re getting. I mean, the inbound coming in from dentists right now, particularly this fall was extremely high, and hygienist. And so we can only surmise it’s partly due to COVID. And interestingly is we do really well with newer graduates. I mean, I just think it’s that we … Because of our support systems and onboarding, we love that and we do really well with them. But what’s interesting is we also have a lot of doctors who are coming to us that maybe been out of school for five, six, seven years. Maybe they’ve been into a private practice and that practice now is cut back, or they really went through a bumpy road. And so you’re seeing inbound on that side coming in pretty fast as well. And so I think this year, even though we paused for a while, as everybody else did in the second quarter, and we had … I want to say we still hired almost 800 hygienists.

Bob Fontana:

It’s remarkable. So that’s an important part of who we are. We think we have a model that does differentiate us. That people can come in and own their own practice under our flagship and support structure, do it in a way, not only where they can be great dentists, but where they can be great leaders. And I always say this to dentists. It’s not just thinking with your hands. There’s so much more to your license. So many other ways to monetize your license in a way that I think gives you different career choices. And I think that’s just part of who we are.

Bill Neumann:

Obviously very busy. What does 2021 look like? You’re working on probably rolling in ClearChoice Management Services and how Aspen Dental Management works with ClearChoice, but what about growth opportunities on the implant side, on the Aspen Dental Management side, on the Urgent Care side, the med spa?

Bob Fontana:

There’s a lot there. So, listen, on the Aspen side, we’re just giving a patient buying the practices standard care, big push, big support for the practices to do more and more implants. Again, sort of very related to what we’re doing with ClearChoice. I think Aspen does roughly 500,000 dentures a year across the system. And you think about almost all of those patients are implant patients or opportunities. And so you start to think about those opportunities. Our clinical teams are standing up programs to really support our doctors to be great at implants, leveraging technology in a way in the ecosystem. You’ll see some releases and some things that we’re going to bring to market maybe today or tomorrow with some partnerships that we’ve developed over the last couple of months. The technology is real.

Bob Fontana:

It’s coming to market. It’s going to help us, I think, again, continue to differentiate supportive practices in a way that they can provide great service. Doing that with ClearChoice obviously is really critical as well. So implants is a big push, ClearChoice. Listen, they’re largely run independently.

Bob Fontana:

Kevin and the team are wonderful. They understand that business way better than I do. So we’re not going to get in the way, but we’re going to help support them and continue to find ways to be efficient in the patient funnel, to be efficient on the cost side and in ways that continue to propel that business forward. So we’re super excited there. We’ll open up, I think, 85 Aspen locations. They’re going to open up 12 to 15 ClearChoice locations. We’re going to open up 20 to 25 WellNow locations, and then we’re going to open up call it five-ish Rejuv locations; three to five Rejuv locations. And so there’s a lot going on. I don’t expect that we’ll do any acquisitions necessarily. Maybe a couple of tucking on the Urgent Care side, but for the most part, it might be pencils down for a bit and continue to sort of work on some of the synergies. Listen, we’re a big organization now. Anyway, we’re the absolute largest for sure on the revenue side and we’re excited to continue to grow across the country.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah. Exciting. Exciting 2020 and 2021 sounds like it’s going to be even more exciting. Let me end this on a question I think a lot of people have. It was a tough year for certain groups and dental practices when it came to same store sales, right?

Bob Fontana:

Yeah.

Bill Neumann:

You lost four weeks, six weeks could have been longer depending on geographically where you were. What’s the outlook like for Aspen Dental Management and the practices that you support in 2021? What are your thoughts on that?

Bob Fontana:

Well, we think on a same store basis our business will continue to move forward. We work both not only on continued new unit growth, but we also work on same store growth. We think it’s an important sign of our health and opportunity and we want to make sure we continue it, so. Again, we’re blessed with being able to sort of camp higher each year. We expect to do it this year as well. We’ll continue to increase hours, bring in more providers; as I mentioned, implants, clear aligners, all these things that we think are really important to us, will continue to drive same-store sales. So we’re excited and listen, we understand that some DSOs, I think really struggled.

Bob Fontana:

I think it’s their balance sheet wasn’t strong. And so when you have a hiccup, it really does constrain you in a way and we’ve been really thoughtful about our balance sheet, how we really think about the health of our business and that of the providers too. And so that’s allowed us, I think, have the flexibility that we’ve had and be opportunistic the way we have in 2020. So again, we’re thrilled. We have great, great providers and partner doctors across the country and they and the teams are the ones that really propel this business forward every single day.

Bill Neumann:

Excellent. Well, great. First off, we really appreciate you taking the time today to clue us into everything you’ve been working on over the past couple of years. And, like I said, in 2020, the year when a lot of people were seeking shelter from the storm, you were busy doing quite a bit. And the ClearChoice Management Services acquisition was big news for an organization really that was known for de novo and not really doing any type of acquisitions. So surprised a lot of people.

Bob Fontana:

Yeah. To some degree maybe surprised us too, but listen, particularly in 2020, but again, I think we’re really fortunate to be in this category. We’ve got tremendous teams, we’ve got a strong business and allows us to do the things that we do. And I’m highly confident that … I always say sort of like one and one, and I think in this case will make three or four or five, and we’re excited to sort of prove that out and demonstrate the synergies certainly between ClearChoice and Aspen, but really all the healthcare models that we support. So yeah. We’re super excited to continue to get at it in 21 and look forward to catching up with you again, hopefully maybe in Chicago as that new building and training center comes to fruition. We expect to be in by mid year. So we’re pretty excited for that as well.

Bill Neumann:

Well, that sounds good. Yeah. I’d love to see it. The first one you had is beautiful. So I can only imagine the second one.

Bob Fontana:

It’s going to be great. State of the art training facility. There’s three floors dedicated to training itself and development. And listen, every time we invest in our teams, we get a return. It’s that simple. And as the providers are sort of the foundation and quarterbacks to everything that happens in the offices, their support teams are really critical as well, and we can’t support them enough and invest in them enough. So we’re excited to really get that over the hump and open up this new, what we think will be a best in class training facility in the country on multiple levels.

Bill Neumann:

Excellent. Well, thanks again. Bob Fontana from Aspen Dental Management. And we’re still not sure. It’s probably more than a DSO now. We’re not sure if it’s a HSO, but I guess at some point it’ll be determined, right?

Bob Fontana:

It’ll be determined. Bill, great to talk with you. Thank you so much for having me. Happy new year. Hopefully we can catch up live soon.

Bill Neumann:

That sounds great. Thanks Bob. And thanks everybody for listening to the Group Dentistry Now Show. Until next time, I’m Bill Neumann.