The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice Of The DSO Industry

Dr. Abhay Bedi, CEO & Dr. Ancy Verdier, Partner at Bedi Dental Group, join the podcast to discuss:

How Dr. Bedi and Dr. Verdier met and became partners
How Bedi Dental Group is organized
What makes Bedi Dental unique
Clinical Model of Comprehensive Care Dentistry
How the comprehensive care process works
What mentorship looks like at Bedi Dental?
The BDG partnership model and much more

To find out more partnerships or career opportunities at Bedi Dental Group – visit https://www.bedidentalgroup.com/contact-bedi-dental-group/

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Our podcast series brings you dental support organization and emerging dental group practice analysis, conversation, trends, news and events. Listen to leaders in the DSO and emerging dental group space talk about their challenges, successes, and the future of group dentistry. The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice of the DSO Industry has listeners across North & South America, Australia, Europe, and Asia. If you like our show, tell a friend or a colleague.

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Full Transcript:

Bill Neumann:

Hey, I’d like to welcome everybody back to the Group Dentistry Now Show. I’m Bill Neumann, and as always thanks for listening in. Without a great audience, we wouldn’t have a show and we also wouldn’t have great guests like we do here tonight. So, I’d like to introduce you to Dr. Verdier. He is a partner at Bedi Dental Group. Ancy Verdier, welcome to the Group Dentistry Now Show. Thanks for being here tonight.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Thank you, Bill. I appreciate the time, and it’s a pleasure to be on here.

Bill Neumann:

And I’d also like to welcome the CEO of Bedi Dental Group. We have Abhay Bedi, welcome to the Group Dentistry Now Show, Dr. Bedi.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Thank you so much, Bill. Super excited.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, we appreciate you being here. I know it’s late on a Monday and you just got done a full day at work. So, thanks for taking time out to talk to our audience about your group. Talk to me a little bit, I’d love to get your background. So Dr. Bedi, if you want to start out, tell me a little bit, I know you’re a prosthodontist, but little bit more like where did you go to dental school? And just a little bit of background would be great.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Sure thing, Bill. It’s great to be on your show and we are super excited to be here. So, a little bit about me and how this group I guess came to be. I grew up in India and I finished dental school there, and I’ve always been one who likes to learn. And I was super inquisitive about learning on how to put things together, and intuitively chose prosthetics as a branch of dentistry to specialize in. So, I came to Boston and joined a three-year certificate program with the full intentions of returning to India. However, after I finished my training I realized with what I’d learned I’d be better suited to stay in the United States. So, I went back and I finished my DMB and my specialty board certification. Geez, it seems like yesterday. And so, after graduating I joined academics and I taught at Tufts Dental School for close to about eight years, where I was an associate professor.

And then I slowly transitioned into my first practice out in Auburn, Massachusetts. And I’ve got to say, even though I was doing well I always felt like there was something missing and I felt unfulfilled. And I guess what irked me always was that there was this gap I always saw in the market, being a prosthodontist obviously, that for comprehensive dentistry, but can this be practiced with emotional intelligence? And I think what kind of struck me is that in order to be successful, to do this and to practice big picture dentistry, communication was key. So, they’re about I found myself a business coach, Adrian Wilkins, who’s written a book called The Way of the Superior Dentist, who was instrumental and pivotal for us into develop and implement these two key concepts that I was talking about. With time, as time went on, the people that referred to me started retiring, and I guess consolidation was a thing then as it is now.

And so, I decided to buy some offices. Now, ironically the joke as a prosthodontist, ironically for me, the first office that I bought was a periodontal office that was owned by my mentor, Dr. Mariani. And I was like, “What the hell am I doing buying a Bedi office?” But the timing was actually perfect because Dr. Verdier here right next to me, my friend from dental school in New York, wanted to move up to Massachusetts. And that’s how we went into partnership and the group started. As time’s gone on, obviously we’ve continued to expand into a doctor led partnership. And then I enrolled in an exec business program to help the business grow and prosper. And here I’d say it would be accurate that at BDG that we are very passionate about restoring the health and joys to those who we serve, and would love to meet and talk to people who share the same vision of dentistry.

Bill Neumann:

So Dr. Verdier, periodontist. So, did you both go to dental school? I think that’s what you said, Dr. Bedi, you went to Tufts together?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yes.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. So, we were under the same roof, Bill, at 1 Kneeland Street in downtown Boston. So, I think that when you heard Abhay’s story right now you get a little bit of me, just like Dr. Bedi, I did my training at Tufts. It’s funny, I went to undergrad at Tufts, I went to dental school at Tufts, and I did my residency. So, they have a moniker. Our team mascot is called Jumbo. So, I’m a triple Jumbo. So, I never really left Massachusetts, but I’m originally from New York.

Bill Neumann:

So, you went to practice down there again? Well, you went back to New York.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. So, after I was done with Massachusetts, I always tell dentists this, you never know the trajectory you’re going to go into. And as soon as I was done, I said, “I’m moving from Massachusetts, never coming back, I’m going to New York.” And that’s where my family was from, that’s where my friends were from. And then I started to practice from there. And I, like a lot of specialists, I was working at a bunch of different practices and then started my own practice from scratch. Then around in 2013, I think it was, Dr. Bedi reached out to me. He had a great opportunity to partner up to buy a periodontal practice in Massachusetts, because at that time, I don’t know if you remember, in 2008 I started my practice. And then 2013, right after the recession, things were starting to consolidate the market a little bit. And we had talked about this a lot because we had kept in contact.

And then at the time I felt like I was pretty well established in the practice where I was in, but wanted to move a little bit closer to family. I had my sister up here, I had my cousins in Massachusetts. So, it just made more sense to kind of move to Massachusetts. And by this time I was married with one child, young child, and then my wife was finished nursing school. So, we thought it was a great opportunity. So, I uprooted the family, moved to Massachusetts, and that was in 2014. And that was probably when we had the biggest snowstorm in history in Massachusetts. And all my friends just kept looking at me like I was crazy. They said, “You’re moving from …” I had a practice in the Hamptons, in East Hampton, long Island. I don’t know, Bill, if you know this, it’s probably one of the richest zip codes in the country.

And to practice in New York City and to be by the beach was phenomenal. And it was a great experience, but there was something that was lacking. Because I wanted to do more comprehensive dentistry. And when I started to speak to Abhay, and started to talk to him about the kind of dentistry he was doing, not that we were both trained the same way, we thought, “Oh, this would be a great opportunity.” So, I thought since this is an opportunity to move up there I’m going to become a partner in another practice, and then really start to grow a practice with someone by your side. Because partnership’s like marriage, you have to work at it. And let me be very clear on the value of being a partner.

Not only does partnering provide like me with the regular profit distributions, because when I was by myself, if I closed my practice, I wasn’t making any money. But I’m able to also feel part of something bigger. And we always kept talking about that. “We want to do something bigger, we want to do something,” because we were happy in our practices but we wanted to be able to impact more people.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Collaborate, have fun.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. And then really we were training with dentists. There were some dentists that were really kind of comprehensive and then there were some that weren’t. And so we said, “Why don’t we do this together?” And that’s how it all started, just a conversation.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yep.

Bill Neumann:

So Dr. Bedi, did you have a practice and then this was your second practice that Dr. Verdier came up for? Or how did this work?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah, so that’s exactly what happened. I was chugging away at my practice that I transitioned from academics to Auburn as a full-time practitioner. And the practice I transitioned into was a general practice. So, it took a while to get it going, and gain the trust of the community so that they’d refer to me. But yes, the second practice, and I said was ironic, that we bought was actually a perio practice. And people in the community were saying, “What the hell are you doing buying a perio practice? You’re a prosthodontist, do you want to cannibalize your business?” And I think we’ve always functioned on trust where we were very transparent with everybody saying that, “Obviously Dr. Verdier is a periodontist, and his job is to take care of this. My interest in this was just to basically support the business.”

Bill Neumann:

So, this was going from one to two locations. And when you added that second location, were there thoughts of adding more at the time? Tell me a little bit about how Bedi Dental Group really started. Was it that second practice or was it after that?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah, so I’d say for us we were very excited because everybody and their grandfather was out buying practices. And I think there was a wave for us, Bill, where a lot of people that referred to me personally, they started retiring. And I think as we bought our first practice, the people in the community said, “Well, if so-and-so sold Dr. Bedi his practice, we should approach him because we are hitting our retirement age.” So, the first couple of practices really fell into our lab where people who we’ve known for a while started retiring and entrusted us with their patients. That’s how it kind of started in the beginning for us.

Bill Neumann:

So, tell me a little bit about how the business itself is organized.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

That’s a great question, Bill. And I think as for us, because both Dr. Verdier and myself are specialists, and our first two practices were specialty practices we’ve, with time, invested in buying specialty practices sprinkled with some restorative practices. And we’ve got a strong belief in taking a multidisciplinary approach with collaboration because it’s great for the patient, it’s a lot of fun for the team, there’s a lot of learning to be had. And as that happened, and we started out in central Mass, we initially got organized in clusters where there was a perio, pros, and a restorative practice together, and we’d have doctors, and there was this collegiality where people would collaborate on multidisciplinary treatment plans. And I think that kind of taught us a lesson that as we grow the business, we follow this footprint of getting organized in clusters, because obviously other than the fact that it’s synergistic in many ways, and also synergistic from an operational aspect too. Because when offices are closer together, they can support each other in so many ways.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

And Bill, let me add to that is that Abhay said that he did his executive MBA around here. And so, one of the things that we learned was to bring infrastructure to what we did.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yes. My executive education program, yeah. We adopted EOS.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. And so, EOS, I think you had another group on here, Bill, that talked about this too. It was kind of made for small to medium sized businesses to bring accountability to the business, because we’re still a business at the end of the day. But we didn’t want to have meetings upon meetings. And you’ve probably had other groups on here where they talk about growth, and I think one or two practices is kind of easy to manage. Once you start moving to the four or five, I think that’s when it becomes a little bit more difficult. And I have kids, I have a wife, he has a life, we both have lives outside of here.

So, we wanted to be somewhat strategic in how we made sure that our meetings were organized so that people weren’t thinking that we were just talking, talking, talking, but really kind of pushing everybody in the same direction. And that’s what they call traction in EOS.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah, the system came upon by the book called Traction written by Gino Wickman. Great system when you subscribe to it.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

And I think that’s helped us grow, and really helped us during COVID too. I think it helped us really organize our time, and we were very strategic in kind of practices that we looked at.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah.

Bill Neumann:

So, the one question I didn’t ask you is what does Bedi Dental Group look like right now? Practice, count, types of practices you have, locations. I know you’re in New England, but just tell me a little bit about where you are now.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah, no. So, at present, Bill, we have nine practices with one more that’s going to make it 10. And we are out in Massachusetts and Vermont. And I’d say that we are a group that has about, what? Four to five specialty practices? And the others are restorative practices. So in general, in total, I’d say we have the odd 22, 23 doctors of which I’d say about 60% are specialists and the other 40% are restorative dentists.

Bill Neumann:

So, and Dr. Verdier talked about how in the 2013 timeframe that’s when consolidation really started. And now you look at 2022 and you look at all the different models out there, and the different DSOs that exist. And there are a lot of them. I mean, there really are when you start to look. Another one pops up it seems like every other week. Talk to me about what makes Bedi Dental Group unique.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah, no, that’s another great question. So, from my perspective, Bill, I think as time’s gone by and we look at all that is happening, there is a culture of corporate managed care. And there’s talk where people say that people just focus on numbers, and volumes, and sometimes unfortunately I’d say it’s at the cost of the care that gets provided to the patient. So, at BDG we are aware of this, but we believe that it’s still possible to have your cake and eat it too. So, it’s still possible for a dentist to really take the time and practice that relationship-based dentistry in a comprehensive manner, and still operate by enjoying this by the support of a management operation on the side. And then I think one of the big pluses with this is that this approach is definitely more profitable and fulfilling to the dentist, their teams.

But at the end of the day, I think when you are strategic about treatment planning and communicating value, it benefits the patients the most. So, the other thing I’d say though technically we are organized as a DSO, the best way I tell people is we truly are like private practices that exist under an umbrella that have a unique [inaudible 00:16:25] personalities that allow them to thrive. And the other thing about it is that a lot of the DSOs, not all that has sprung up, are mostly led by [inaudible 00:16:38] groups, et cetera. We are truly a doctor-led dental partnership, and our intention is to grow through equity partnerships with other doctors.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. And I think, Bill, you brought up a good point up there about DSO being in the landscape. In our kind of efficiency business model, volume dentistry is still practiced. And most insurances are accepted, patients often become numbers. We believe in spending time, getting to know the patients, educating the patients so they can choose the best care for themselves. So, we talk about this a lot, about communication, and how it’s so important to the relationship based dentistry model still works. Nobody wants to feel like they’re a number when they go into a dental practice, but feel like the doctor really understanding. So, our mission really is to help patients choose happier, healthier lives. And we talk about this with our teams all the time. We want you to choose happier, healthier lives. We want to communicate that to our patients too as well. So, as practicing dentists, we choose to realize doctors like mentorship. That was one of the things that if I didn’t have the mentors that I had at dental school, and even Abhay, as being a friend, he was still a mentor.

We collaborated with things, we would talk from … I was in New York, he was in Massachusetts, we would talk about things all the time. Continuing education is still important. Autonomy is still important, ownership is still important. Our ecosystem gives doctors all of that. It ensures that an outcome is optimized for both the patients and the doctors. That’s why BDG is the dental partnership for doctors, and it’s by doctors for doctors. So, that’s the thing that always comes up is who really controls the shoestrings? The doctors should still have autonomy because it’s still a patient based relationship that we’re trying to make sure that is still valued, and it’s still important.

Bill Neumann:

It really ties into an article that we did with you in the late summer. I’ll drop a link to it in the show notes, called The Power of Doctor Led Dental Partnership. So, that’s really a good explainer as to what the culture of BDG is, what it looks like from a dentist’s perspective. So yeah, we’ll definitely make sure that everybody that’s listening to this has access to that. I’d like to dig a little bit deeper here. For clinicians in particular, you mentioned mentorship. I think I want to get back to that a little bit later because that’s super important. I think it’s probably more important now than ever. Clinical model of comprehensive care dentistry. Tell me about that.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah, sure Bill. So, I’d say that this concept did evolve after many years of practicing. And I think after many years of treating complex rehabilitation cases, I always look at myself and said, “W did it take so long for the light bulb to go off in my head?” Because what I realized was that a lot of patients that I saw that needed their mouths to be put back together, had often came in where they’d seen dentists throughout their life and had a lot of dentistry. And then I asked myself this question that how can somebody who’s seen a dentist most of their lives, had a lot of dentistry, not all, but the majority, why do they need to go through a full rehabilitation? And then the answer to me was that obviously there’s strategy involved here. You don’t want to fix teeth, you want to change lives.

And how do you do that? You do that by having patients see the value of taking a proactive approach. And again, we know that especially if something doesn’t hurt, patients are shy about getting more work done because dentistry is not like going to Disneyland, and it certainly isn’t inexpensive. So, how do we create value? And we say we create value by basically communicating with them on what’s going on in their mouths through photography models. And there’s so much that’s come out over here, but it really is our intention of getting the patient to understand by giving them a tour of their mouth as to what’s going on for them the way we understand it. And then what we notice is when we do this, other than building a great relationship and rapport with patients and trust, these patients then feel empowered to choose the best possible care for their circumstances.

So, at the very end of all of this, you have more happier, satisfied patients, but then you also have dental teams that, as a result of doing chunks of dentistry, typically get to enjoy dentistry like people talk about when they go to Spear’s, or Seattle Study Club, and are not running around on roller skates doing one filling in this room and a filling in that room. So in my opinion, it’s truly a win-win. And we are over here a big fan that we believe that comprehensive care practice with emotional intelligence through education and communication is how all dentistry should get practiced.

Bill Neumann:

Dr. Verdier, I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. So, just like what Abhay has said, I think it’s a little harder way of practicing, but it’s much more fulfilling. So, in the traditional setup we have patients that usually see the hygienist within the first hour, patients get x-rays, a cleaning, maybe a 10-minute exam with the doctor. That’s what you typically will see in a regular general practice. The challenge with the approach that I just talked about is that there isn’t an adequate enough time to address all the concerns other than the problems that you might see that the patient is experiencing or voicing at the time. So, in our approach, the way that Abhay just talked about it, we feel it’s necessary to slow things down. In the beginning spend time with the patient, and then all the new patients meet the doctors first. It’s almost kind of an interview, an interview for the patient so they get to know you and you get to know the patient.

So, in the first point then we spend time in a nonclinical setting. So, it’s not threatening, because who likes going to the dentist and hear sounds of drills, and a light in your face. I think people have a lot of trauma and a lot of anxiety about coming to the dentist’s office. You poll people, that’s what you hear about all the time. So, we get to know the people behind the team, their goals, concerns, fears, limiting beliefs, anything that might come up. Then we move forward with collecting information like you normally would do, just like what Abhay had said, dental photography, x-rays, study cast, perio charting, and then we use this information to give them a tour of the mouth. So, they gain a better understanding of what their oral condition’s all about.

We want the patient to understand their mouth like we do, just like what Abhay had said, and then what we do is that’s typical … I call it the data gathering appointment. And then we usually bring them back. And then because it takes time to sit down with the information that you’re given and really kind of work on the patient properly. That’s comprehensive dentistry, and you hear about this all the time, comprehensive dentists, comprehensive dentistry, really looking, taking the time and getting yourself outside of the [inaudible 00:24:20] to look at the patient’s file and see what’s going on with the patient. And then towards the end of the first appointment, we work with the patient to create a treatment plan that works for them.

So, after that first appointment we bring them back after two weeks, patient’s invited to back to go over their case again, the findings, proposed solutions, our mutual consensus is reached, we call it co-discovery. That first time when you’re really trying to engage with the patient and really have them understand what’s going on in their mouth. And then we draw a treatment plan, and then we schedule the patient for the next steps after that. So, that’s typically how it works.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah. And to add to what you’re saying, Ancy, I think the framework that we take, because everybody says they do comprehensive dentistry, but it’s a systematic approach whether you involve the patient who’s the decision maker. And they truly get an understanding. And through that understanding, you build these relationships with them where two relationships of wanting to help somebody, wanting to partner up with somebody to help them out. And I think this awareness, education, and trust really inspires patients to choose more for themselves that they ordinarily would otherwise, given the fact that there might not be a lot going on with them in terms of reactive dentistry. But they see that if I take care of this, and why I should take care of this as time goes by, why I would more than likely need less dentistry as time goes by during a lifetime.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, so it’s really interesting. I mean, that comprehensive care dentistry model that you have certainly sounds more like the exception than the norm when you think about things. With the way you typically see. You go in for your hygiene appointment and the doc comes in for five or 10 minutes, and does a quick check, and then they’re off versus getting to, when you’re a new patient, really getting to … Forming that relationship, making them feel more comfortable, spending time with them, explaining things to them. So, my guess there is you have longer term patients, patients that trust you more, patients that probably … Treatment acceptance is a bit easier if they form that relationship. So, it really makes sense. I mean, is this something that you see other practices doing? Or is this something that you just decided to do on your own? Where did this come from?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

So for us, Bill, I think a lot of this morphed down as time went by. My friend and consultant, Adrian Miltons, actually was a big part in proposing on how we should operate. Spears at a certain level operates at this level, but as you said, it’s challenging. And I’d say it’s challenging to morph yourself into doing this because guess what? When the phone rings, what do the patients want? The patients want to see the hygienist for a cleaning. So, you’ve got to change the mindset of the entire organization that when they call and they want a cleaning, how do you get them to see the doctor and instill that value? And then once you live in this ecosystem, because in the beginning when we started everybody said, “Nobody wants to see you guys, they wanted to see the hygienist.” And then as time went on, we don’t hear that very much.

But I mean, where you said with treatment acceptance, I think another big thing over here, Bill, is that we truly partner with patients. And I jokingly always tell patients that if I had Dr. Verdier sitting next to me with his own mouth and had an identical twin, they may have two separate goals. What treatment they may choose to get are absolutely two separate treatments. So, there isn’t one answer that fits all. But within the scope of comprehensive dentistry, you can partner with people that at some point in time don’t want to fix their worn teeth, just want to take care of their broken teeth and that’s okay. But as time goes by, when they choose, “Okay, well now I think it’s time.” So, we don’t judge people, we try and basically meet them for where they are, and truly partner up and trying to help them, giving them the best circumstances on what’s going to happen if they let go of what is happening in their mouth right now. What is more than likely going to transpire?

And then at the end, I always jokingly tell patients that at the end it’s their time, and their money, and their mouth, and we are here to just help them.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. And I’ll tell you Bill, we went to a bunch of programs together, Spear, I run a Seattle study club out here, and everybody keeps talking about doing complex cases. But the communication piece is something that’s so important. And I think at the education level, you put four years of dental school, and then three years of residency, that doesn’t mean that you’re the best communicator. That’s something that you work on constantly. And then I think at this level, when you can incorporate that into how you do business, I think insurance becomes such a big thing in so many practices it doesn’t become like that anymore, because patients want to see you, want the best treatment, and we’re willing to pay for it.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah. And the big thing we always tell our dentists is please don’t speak dentistry. Talk English, get them to understand what you’re trying to tell them. So, I think that’s a huge piece where communication is key here.

Bill Neumann:

Let me ask a little bit of question about … And this comes up quite a bit from clinicians that are looking to potentially partner with DSOs. Talk about quotas, targets, things like that to arrive at some of the goals that you may have set. I mean, what does that look like at Bedi?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah, so will I tell you there is obviously a stigma around corporate care dentistry that it’s a game of numbers, it’s a game of arbitrage, it’s a game of profits. And what happens to patient care? And I think that is really what we are a little different because we were two nerds who went to post-doc school, and then after that I did a little bit of a business gig. So, my take on this personally is that look at if you’re running a business, every business has the responsibility of making a decent profit, but it has to be done decently. So, obviously like all fiscally responsible organizations because now we are not over 100 people, you have to use numbers to measure the health of our business. But the thing for us is that these numbers need to be derived organically, and they should measure the health of the business.

So, we have KPIs and OKRs like other organizations, but our metrics truly focus on the quality of care that is being delivered. And so, my big belief is that if you do the right thing, if you follow your passion, your profits will automatically follow versus trying to chase money, which then leads you because it’s like your shadow. Personal belief. But anyways, so what happens with these metrics is that we can monitor, and support, and develop our healthcare providers through education and mentorship programs for where they need support in succeeding. So, I think we use metrics that basically really truly measure healthcare outcomes. And that automatically for us takes care of the monetary end of things.

Bill Neumann:

So, this is something that’s mentorship. Dr. Verdier talked about it earlier, and it seems to be one of the most important things now to clinicians, whether they’re looking to partner with a DSO, or whether they’re younger and just looking for a career opportunity, they’re looking for support. And I think that’s why you see a lot of the younger clinicians wanting to work in a group setting. And so, I would love to talk a little bit more about what does mentorship look like at Bedi Dental?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Sure. So, we are big believers in education, whether it comes through mentorship, whether it comes through leadership development, or continuing education. Another big belief for us is that we want to make sure people that join us hit the ground running and are channeled in the right direction. So, we have a very organized onboarding and orientation program that people follow to make sure that you’re set and placed right in the organization to succeed for all positions. For all new doctors that join us, they all have a mentor. And this mentorship basically means that there’s either weekly touch, biweekly touch, or a monthly touch based on where these doctors are in their development to go over discussing the technicalities of a case, talking about the psyche or the interaction they’ve had with a certain patient, and how do they communicate to give them some tools on communicating. And sometimes it’s just somebody who says, “Geez, you know what? I’ve never prepared a full arch,” or, “This is the first time I’m placing an implant,” or, “This is the first time I’m doing six crowns.”

And we say, “No, that’s fine. Do it and we can help you chairside because we are here.” So, I think it really instills a lot of confidence, and growth, and development in people because you can take all the courses in the world but if you come back and you don’t have support, what happens if something does not work out? Who do you reach out to? I think this is also coming from an academic background. We have doctor meetings once every two months where the entire group comes together, somebody presents a case, somebody presents a topic, there’s a healthy debate with discussions on agreements and disagreements, how things got done and how other people would do it. And then other than that, as a company, other than our U.S. offsites, we have company offsites at least twice a year that focuses on leadership development and education for the entire team.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Bill, you talked about mentorship and that’s something that’s dear near to both our hearts. And I think that when we were doing post grad, both our program directors told us, “Part of being a doctor, the actual definition of a doctor is that you’re a teacher.” And so, someone had done it for us and we wanted to do it for others. So collaboratively, all of us together sitting in a room talking about cases, talking about psyche of patients, things of that nature, when you can really share your experiences to benefit everybody. Now, we don’t only talk about our successes, we want to talk about the failures and how we can do better. So, integrating and incorporating real-time dentistry. One thing that we talk about all the time, and we go to courses, you get all jazzed up and you come back from a course, and you want to do the dentistry but you don’t have the support system.

I talk with my other doctors, we just did a hands-on course with some of our surgeons, and we’re incorporating some of the things that we did into our daily routine. Those are things that you can talk about because you have that shared experiences. So, the integration of real-time dentistry is really important. Clinical excellence, that’s also something that we really hone upon with our doctors because we run … Because I think as a dentist who’s been practicing solo for a long time, sometimes you can get into your ways. And if you don’t have somebody who’s holding you accountable or challenging you a little bit, there’s a lot of times that you’re going to get stuck in doing the same thing, using the same product, because dentistry evolves just like people evolve.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

And then you get on the corporate [inaudible 00:36:23] dentistry.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Exactly. And then on that part, the mentorship and the vehicle to do that are Spear study clubs, are Seattle study clubs, bringing in top knocks lecturers. I feel like a dean of a small school when I do it because I’m constantly looking for the right program for the year. What are we going to talk about? Are we going to talk about business? We’re going to talk about communication, we’re going to talk about clinical skills. All those different things become something that we, collaboratively as a group, want to excel in and be better dentists.

Bill Neumann:

Think you’re both really painting a really nice picture of how different you are as an organization compared to a lot of other groups out there. So, you talked about the mentorship, you really talked about the clinical focus, all these educational opportunities that you have, and then you’re there to support the clinicians as they get these opportunities. And they’re able to use those in a setting, in the practice setting. What else are we missing here compared to a traditional DSO? That partnership, you hear that a lot now, and so I know that some of that is and is with other groups, more marketing. So, they use partnership because it sounds softer and kinder, but Bedi Dental Group really is a partnership. So, what is a dentist to expect? So, they love what they hear here, they found out about you, what does a transition look like? And then what should they expect? And what does that partnership feel like?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

So in our growth, and I think this is a world in our journey, we bought practices in the beginning and we had associates who joined us. And the story we always tell is that it sometimes is not as workable, because think of this. I buy Dr. Verdier’s practice, Dr. Verdier’s practice there for 20 years, his patients have been bonded to him. And now we bring on an associate who’s out of school, the associate may or may not be there for the next 20 years. And what we are trying to really propagate here is relationship-based dentistry. And then the other part from the doctor facing standpoint, we said, “What do doctors want?” They want autonomy. They just don’t want to be hired guns. They want to feel like they’re really contributing to something. So, we’ve always gone and said that we want to partner with like-minded dentists, and we want to definitely associate ourselves when we buy practices with people who share the same philosophy of care, and truly go into a partnership that is a win-win for both parties concerned, because as a partner they get to own a piece of the business.

They feel like they’re contributing to this, whether it be a doctor seller or it would be an associate that joins us who has entrepreneurial spirit. But at the end I always say what and who benefits the most from this partnership is truly our patients, because there’s not a revolving door of dentists that cycle through a practice. And then leadership comes from people who are partners and have skin in the game.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Bill, to add to that about partnership, it’s funny you brought this up because I just had a conversation with a dentist. And she asked me, “How do you do it all?” And I said, “I don’t. I don’t do it all. I can’t do it all.” You don’t want to try to do everything. And as a partner in the business, you don’t become a number, just like our patients, and just what Abhay had said, it’s relationship based. Partnership is like a marriage where you have to work at things, you have the opportunity to be a leader if you want to be a leader, if you want to be a clinical lead, you can do that clinically. So, everybody takes a position and says, “Okay, this is the part that I’m going to hold in this company.” So, the daily headaches that you have to deal with, with maybe HR, with maybe managing an office, because I’ll tell you, we’ve both been solo owners. And the many hats that you have to wear becomes very taxing for a long time.

And if you do it for a long time and then the market starts to change a little bit, you start to say, “Do I really like dentistry?” And we never want people to question whether they like dentistry. We want you to be excited about dentistry. So, you’re going to do the things that you love to do. That’s what we call when we say our partners. These are our partners in business, these are our partners in leadership, these are our partners in clinical excellence.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah. And I think we’ve even expanded partnership down to creating equity partnerships for our management team members. And the reason is because we’ve got ambition for ourself. We want to attract the brightest to come and join us, and help us grow. And we want to make sure that they get rewarded for their efforts as well.

Bill Neumann:

As we start to wind things down, you talked about looking for the best and brightest. You want to bring those docs and those practices in. You’re in Massachusetts right now, in Vermont. Are there other states you’re looking at expanding to? What doctors should be reaching out to you right now?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

So, we are in the northeast. And we have a regional footprint, Bill. I think doctors that share and are passionate about dentistry as we are, doctors that are mid-career or mid-late career. And oftentimes we get phone calls that say, “I love doing the dentistry, I just don’t want to deal with everything else. And I’d still love to practice.” I think people who want to associate. And one of the gripe in the industry is that they always dangle the carrot about, yeah, one day you’ll be a partner. But we are looking for that mix where with U.S., we say that if they basically fit our culture and the GWC, that position, that means they get it want it in capacity, we want to have them as partners so that we can perpetuate the business and they can benefit from practicing great dentistry, and even benefit monetarily.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah, we have this joke all the time. We never want people to feel like they’re a widget. So, our doctors are partners that we want, we doctors to really enjoy the upside. And there’s nothing wrong, if somebody wants to be an associate I think that’s fine. I think that’s a place for that. It’s not like every doctor who comes in here is going to be a partner, but I think that as our organization grows the huge upside that we get through equity is the practice growth. Typically, most practices see an uptake in revenue and reduction of expenses, making them more profitable. But with time equity becomes more valuable. Dental groups trade for greater multiples of EBITDA. So, we talk about those things all the time. But our doctors, it’s really, Bill, it’s really a cultural fit.

If you can sit down and have a cup of coffee with that person, and they really kind of get where you want to go, and they still want to grow and they’re still hungry to do things, I don’t care if you’re two years out of school, or if you’re 20 years out of school, or even 30. I think that passion for learning and growth still happens. We want to give you an environment to do that.

Bill Neumann:

So, my last, well, actually two questions. One, what’s the future of Bedi Dental Group look like? I’d really like to your vision on where things are headed in the next couple of years for your organization.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah. So, I think with where we are, we have a regional footprint. Through EOS, it forces you to see your vision one year out, three years out, and then have a big heavy auditions goal. And a big heavy auditions goal is that we passionately believe that we can redefine, at least as it stands in the dental service organizations and the DSO environment, where comprehensive dentistry can truly be practiced. The same kind of dentistry that got done where there was relationship with your neighboring dentist who did great work. And you can do that by basically making all your other processes more streamlined, as Dr. Verdier said with the marketing and all of in the background. But I think our 10-year picture is that we would have a national footprint, and would be a sizable player in this market.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

And let me add, Bill. We’re still practicing dentists so we work. And Abhay and I, we talk about this all the time. This is still exciting for us. We want to see patients. We want to treat patients. We understand the business growth. We want to be able to work with alongside our other dentists. We want to be able to mentor, we want to grow that business model. So, I think for us, if we were ever not practicing I don’t know if it would still be enjoyable for us, because not only we doctor led, doctor trained, everything, that’s what we believe in. We believe in patient basic. And that’s important for us.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah. And I think to your point, Ancy, how we still are able to run an organization is to invest in a management team that’s experienced and has seen much more growth than where we are at present so that it can help us support, reach our goals.

Bill Neumann:

Well, that’s great. I definitely can hear the passion in both your voices and that definitely carries through. Last question, this is the easy one. How do people find out more? So, if I’m a clinician that has a practice, I want to talk to you and find out what the comprehensive care model looks like, and what a partnership might look like, how do I do that?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Well, I’d say we are not hard to find. You can visit our website. That is bedidentalgroup.com. That is B-E-D-I dentalgroup.com. I can also be reached on my email at Abhay@bedidentalgroup.com. That is A-B-H-A-Y at B-E-D-I dentalgroup.com.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

And yeah, that’s for me too. I’m at AVerdier, A-V-E-R-D-I-E-R at bettydentalgroup.com. I’m on every kind of probably social media, LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever you want. And Bill, we really are open books. So, I’ll tell you, anybody who wants to even come visit us and kind of see what we do, even from a clinical perspective, or even how we run our business, we don’t hide things. There’s no growth if everybody’s not growing at the same time. So, whatever we can share with others, or people want to share with us, we’re happy to do that.

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Yeah. We always have an open door policy, and we have a lot of people that come and shadow us, and learn from us. And we are happy to learn from whoever can teach us something. So, anybody who wants to connect with us, we are excited about that opportunity.

Bill Neumann:

Well, that’s great. What we’ll do is we’ll drop the email addresses in the show notes, the website so they can contact you there. Just find out more on your website. And so, this is another concern that comes up quite a bit as far as just the transition in general. I’ve made the decision, I want to sell to a DSO, I want to partner with a group. A lot of times the concern is what’s the transition look like, and the length of time to transition over? Can you talk a little bit about what that experience is like at Bedi Dental Group?

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Sure thing, Bill. Would love to. So I mean, I’d say since we are a relationship based dentistry company, the first thing I always say is that we really want to partner with people or practices that share a similar philosophy, because otherwise one group wants to go north, but the other party wants to go east. It doesn’t work very well. To us, transitions are very important because they ensure the continuity of the practice and protects the doctor’s legacy, which takes doctors decades to build, whether it be a loyal, large following of patients or the staff that’s worked for them for many, many years. And then yet all of this can be put in jeopardy if the doctor just sells their practice, and to a new owner, and just walks out. So, here at Bedi Dental Group we understand this, and we strive to make the transition period as enjoyable and productive as possible.

Typically, let’s say we want to see a transition of three to five years, but we know each scenario is different. So, we’re willing to be flexible if possible.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yeah. And also, Bill, by having a doctor stay on as the equity partner, they make more money than if they had sold to their practice outright and just kind of walked away. And our hope is that doctor transitions are positive enjoyable capstones. You always hear these stories about great experiences, you hear more about the bad experiences. But if a doctor is ready to retire, we want them to have an enjoyable transition where they feel that their patients are being taken care of, and that they’re doing the kind of dentistry that they still want to do without being bogged down by all the other stuff that happens that you have to wear in terms of hats that you have to wear.

Bill Neumann:

That’s great. So, transition in general, two to five years at least. You want them to stay on, there’s equity involved, but you’re flexible and you work with people. Every situation’s different,

Dr. Abhay Bedi:

Every situation’s different.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Yes, absolutely.

Bill Neumann:

Yeah, that that’s wonderful. Gentlemen, Dr. Bedi and Dr. Verdier, really appreciate you taking the time out tonight and sharing quite a bit about your group and what you’re doing, which is really unique. And I just recommend that anybody that is interested in finding out more reaches out to one of these two gentlemen. You can always reach out to us too and we’ll put you in touch with them. So with that, that’s the end of the show. We appreciate everybody listening in or watching us. I’m Bill Neumann, and until next time this is the Group Dentistry Now Show.

Dr. Ancy Verdier:

Thank you, Bill.